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Id:
37814
Status:
open
Priority:
Medium/Medium
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Dates
Created:Fri, 14 Nov 2014 16:48:55 -0500
Updated:Fri, 07 Jul 2017 20:01:46 -0400
Closed:Not set



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CC: Tomas Hozza <thozza@redhat.com>
Subject: PKCS#11 support for TSIG algorithms
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 22:48:48 +0100
To: bind-suggest@isc.org
From: Petr Spacek <pspacek@redhat.com>
Hello, I would like to ask you if you would accept patch set with support for TSIG operations using PKCS#11. Motivation: We have something like networked HSM and we are trying to solve TSIG key distribution problem. The raw idea is that dnssec-keyfromlabel could generate keys files for TSIG algorithms and these files could be used with nsupdate -k file. PKCS#11 standard v2.30 contains all the necessary methods (CKM_SHA_1_HMAC and others) so it should be 'just' a matter of implementing proper DST binding ... Am I right? The only problem I found is that 'rndc tsig-list' does not list TSIG keys generated using dnssec-keygen and stored in 'keys-directory'. Is it fixable? Maybe it could allow TSIG key addition/removal at run-time as a side-effect (if we somehow hack 'rndc loadkeys' to reload TSIG keys too). What do you think? Thank you for your time! -- Petr Spacek @ Red Hat
I am currently out of my office (~12000 km) and I'll go back in some hours, so I apologise for the likely delay for a detailed answer. BTW there is a new PKCS#11 standard (specs still required a final vote, include files are not yet available) but it won't change something as HMAC has been covered since a long time. The native PKCS#11 supports *all* the standard crypto functions needed by named, including hash and HMAC. So there is nothing to change on this side. If I understand well you'd like to put secrets in the HSM. Currently this is supported only for RSA and ECDSA key pairs (look for a fromlabel methos in dst_funct arrays. Note for OpenSSL only RSA keys are supported (sound as ECC is not supported by the PKCS#11 OpenSSL engine). Anyway it seems reasonable to extend fromlabel to HMAC secrets as HMAC is already in the DST stuff. Now I need the opinion of my colleagues if the result will be to get a PKCS#11 specific feature. Note I don't yet fully understand your point about rndc tsig-list. I am afraid the current only way to configure TSIG keys (aka secrets) is to put them in the named config file... Surely something which requires ASAP improvements...
CC: undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject: Re: [ISC-Bugs #37814] PKCS#11 support for TSIG algorithms
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:29:10 +0000
To: Francis Dupont via RT <bind-suggest@isc.org>
From: Evan Hunt <each@isc.org>
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 11:20:02PM +0000, Francis Dupont via RT wrote: > Note I don't yet fully understand your point about > rndc tsig-list. I am afraid the current only way to > configure TSIG keys (aka secrets) is to put them > in the named config file... There's also TKEY.
Subject: Re: [ISC-Bugs #37814] PKCS#11 support for TSIG algorithms
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 22:42:51 +0100
To: bind-suggest@isc.org
From: Petr Spacek <pspacek@redhat.com>
Hello, and thank you for your answer! On 15.11.2014 00:20, Francis Dupont via RT wrote: > I am currently out of my office (~12000 km) and > I'll go back in some hours, so I apologise for > the likely delay for a detailed answer. > > BTW there is a new PKCS#11 standard (specs > still required a final vote, include files are not > yet available) but it won't change something as > HMAC has been covered since a long time. > > The native PKCS#11 supports *all* the standard > crypto functions needed by named, including hash > and HMAC. So there is nothing to change on this side. > > If I understand well you'd like to put secrets in the HSM. Yes, exactly. > Currently this is supported only for RSA and ECDSA > key pairs (look for a fromlabel methos in dst_funct > arrays. Note for OpenSSL only RSA keys are supported > (sound as ECC is not supported by the PKCS#11 > OpenSSL engine). I'm thinking more about direct/native PKCS#11 support. OpenSSL's PKCS#11 engine never worked for me and generally with standard Red Hat packages ... > Anyway it seems reasonable to extend fromlabel to > HMAC secrets as HMAC is already in the DST stuff. > Now I need the opinion of my colleagues if the result > will be to get a PKCS#11 specific feature. > > Note I don't yet fully understand your point about > rndc tsig-list. I am afraid the current only way to > configure TSIG keys (aka secrets) is to put them > in the named config file... Surely something which > requires ASAP improvements... You understand me perfectly. I was making the point that TSIG keys stored in key files (produced by dnssec-keygen) located in "keys-directory" are ignored by named and and are not usable in zone "update-policy". Maybe this could be a way how to separate keys from named config file and to allow dynamic key management at run-time (with an equivalent of rndc loadkeys for these TSIG keys). -- Petr^2 Spacek
On Mon Nov 24 21:42:58 2014, pspacek@redhat.com wrote: > Hello, > > and thank you for your answer! > > On 15.11.2014 00:20, Francis Dupont via RT wrote: > > I am currently out of my office (~12000 km) and > > I'll go back in some hours, so I apologise for > > the likely delay for a detailed answer. > > > > BTW there is a new PKCS#11 standard (specs > > still required a final vote, include files are not > > yet available) but it won't change something as > > HMAC has been covered since a long time. > > > > The native PKCS#11 supports *all* the standard > > crypto functions needed by named, including hash > > and HMAC. So there is nothing to change on this side. > > > > If I understand well you'd like to put secrets in the HSM. > Yes, exactly. > > > Currently this is supported only for RSA and ECDSA > > key pairs (look for a fromlabel methos in dst_funct > > arrays. Note for OpenSSL only RSA keys are supported > > (sound as ECC is not supported by the PKCS#11 > > OpenSSL engine). > I'm thinking more about direct/native PKCS#11 support. => I agree and I just commented the fact the OpenSSL stuff is already far behind.. > OpenSSL's PKCS#11 > engine never worked for me and generally with standard > Red Hat packages ... => not really surprised (I wrote the native PKCS#11 code because the OpenSSL PKCS#11 engine was impossible to debug/maintain/support... it started as a private experiment but It was so successful it was adopted for official distribs) > > Anyway it seems reasonable to extend fromlabel to > > HMAC secrets as HMAC is already in the DST stuff. > > Now I need the opinion of my colleagues if the result > > will be to get a PKCS#11 specific feature. => I postpone this point as the next one is required if we want to go further. > > Note I don't yet fully understand your point about > > rndc tsig-list. I am afraid the current only way to > > configure TSIG keys (aka secrets) is to put them > > in the named config file... Surely something which > > requires ASAP improvements... > > You understand me perfectly. I was making the point that > TSIG keys stored in key files (produced by dnssec-keygen) > located in "keys-directory" are ignored > by named and and are not usable in zone "update-policy". > > Maybe this could be a way how to separate keys from > named config file and to allow dynamic key management > at run-time (with an equivalent of rndc loadkeys > for these TSIG keys). => IMHO this is enough to get its own ticket (I leave my colleagues to create it in the case they agree). Thanks
CC: undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject: Re: [ISC-Bugs #37814] PKCS#11 support for TSIG algorithms
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:54:39 +0000
To: Francis Dupont via RT <bind-suggest@isc.org>
From: Evan Hunt <each@isc.org>
> I was making the point that > TSIG keys stored in key files (produced by dnssec-keygen) > located in "keys-directory" are ignored > by named and and are not usable in zone "update-policy". > > Maybe this could be a way how to separate keys from > named config file and to allow dynamic key management > at run-time (with an equivalent of rndc loadkeys > for these TSIG keys). Interesting idea. I submitted it to the suggest queue as RT #37903. If I wanted to do something like this using current BIND, I'd generate keys using "ddns-confgen -q", concatenate them into a named.conf include file, and run "rndc reconfig".
CC: undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject: Re: [ISC-Bugs #37814] PKCS#11 support for TSIG algorithms
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 02:56:58 +0000
To: Evan Hunt via RT <bind-suggest@isc.org>
From: Evan Hunt <each@isc.org>
> "ddns-confgen -q" (Also known as "tsig-keygen", since BIND 9.10.)